Why would anyone think Christie could remember the night of the shooting anyway?? 3 records for "Robert Knickerbocker" in "Pima County". And once again, considering that she was diagnosed as bipolar, did not help her cause. Yes, I usually answer the emails I get about the blogs. I simply state facts that did not or would not come out at the time or blatant misconduct from a legal system that is supposed to be based on innocent until proven guilty. Either way he could NOT have seen who shot him unless he has eyes in the back of his head. Nine months after the shootings, on February 28, 1984, Diane Downs was arrested and charged with one count of murder and two counts of attempted murder. But Downs' story continued that when she got out of her car to help, the man told her that he wanted her vehicle. I am not biased. A sick kid who had a stroke and traumatized being pressured for weeks to remember her mother killing her? The blog I read is all about the improprieties and flat out misconduct in Dianes trial (and the way Ann Rule profited off of it with fiction). I enjoyed your take, and agree their are several reasons with this, and lets be honestevery other case ever prosecuted, to take pause and question but Diane continues to lie, make up brand new stories about people after her, and has made no moves to better herself in any way shape or form while shes been in prison, by her own admission. I do not discuss her guilt or innocence because this is not what the blog is about, but I personally hope she is released one day. As a result, he decided not to attend the rest of the trial. And that Ann Rule took advantage of the situation to sell her book. He needed, now more than ever, to vacate the area asap. Usually it isnt there but every once in awhile, it comes out. You are not the only one who thinks she is guilty and I know that getting their man at all cost is a popular mantra, but I disagree. Strange how Jagger is pretty absent too except for the few photos where he is wrongly identified as Hugi. I mean if a guy admits to killing children over and over, shouldnt we pay attention to that? And after Diane left Arizona she didnt call Knick to inquire about his love, but rather about when he would repay the $500 (Appendix 81, pages 1479-1480). How interesting. Organize and share things you love. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. There is also a recording where she says that she had no idea who shot them. The fact that the DA adopted the children, since it was after the trial, is more of a gray area. So she could not have shot her kids at the distance determined by the state unless she changed her clothing and it did not come up at trial. I just read your opinion on the Pamela Smart case and the Scott Peterson case. Don't know what in the world came over me, Christopher P. Stokes told a Wisconsin court. And Steven was free to follow her lead or not. She could not have been shot twice in the back while sitting up and have the bullet pierce her body to end up under the floorboard of the passenger side. That didnt seem right so we wrote a letter to Mr Hugi with a request for visitation rights. $30k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $30k. Run Bambi Run! But to convince this young and vulnerable girl to turn on her mother, they needed to isolate her from her family and work relentlessly on her confession.. Knickerbocker, Robert C.Robert C. Knickerbocker, age 82 of Tucson, AZ, passed away on May 15, 2015 in Tucson. But there is forensic evidence pointing to Diane Downs. But Ann Rules utterly biased account is an insult to investigative journalism and there seems to be very reasonable doubt here. If it was not such a high profile case, Diane Downs would have been paroled a long time ago: speculative, Ill stop there. http://www.glamour.com/story/i-found-out-my-mother-was-a-killer-the-rebecca-babcock-story. The only living witness to the crime was Christie, whose stroke impaired her speech and made her unable to speak to police. No. That towel should have been soaked in their blood not hers. You have funeral questions, we have answers. I talked about her still being locked up, all these years later, because I really want to know is it because we believe she will commit more crimes or is it because we need more revenge? After arriving at the nearest hospital where the nursing staff and doctors attended to the children, the police were called in and her parents arrived promptly. What is known for a fact, is, Prosecutor Fred Hugi took physical custody of Christie and Danny shortly after Christies confessions to her school mates, and he officially adopted them in the summer of 1986. But I would not know what her state of mind is because I did not witness it. Being bipolar, she had no impulse control so it should not have surprised anyone. During the process of the termination (which can take the whole 2 years in question, with appeals) the court is mandated to find family to take the children. Justice is all that is left. Our legal system is not perfect. Yes, I had filed for divorce and then I canceled it. He failed. Yep, Downs who was found guilty in 1984, escaped successfully from the Oregon Womens Correctional Center in 1987 and was transferred to Jersey afterwards. Fred Hugi looks nothing like Jim Jagger. Wrong. The fact that the Hugis did so successfully is arguably proof of this. Basically then at that Thats the point. She was given a life sentence plus 50 years. Children under the age of twelve may cognitively grasp the concept of truth and lie, but lack the conscience which compels people to apply the concept to their lives, or the strength to maintain the truth when adults coerce her to lie. Considering that the marks on the lethal bullets did not fit the bullet fingerprinting found in the rifle, this gun switcheroo was a good save for the state, but did not support the theory presented at trial either. Theres a lot to be said here, still. Robert Craig KNICKERBOCKER was born on December 25, 1932 and passed away on May 15, 2015 in Tucson, AZ and is under the care of. No matter how much Ive read, or how many of her constant at the time interviews I watch on YouTube, the things that come from her brain to her mouth never cease to amaze me. He strung her along, played with both womens emotions, and after saying he would join her in Oregon, reneged and stayed with his wife. The absence of the gun or gun powder residues on Diane is fact. How was DD able to get away from CK and get the keys back into the ignition without there being more attempts on her life? Years later, seven witnesses signed affidavits telling of a man named Jim Haynes continuing confessionthat he wasthe shooter, and his appearance boresimilarities to the sketch. Every time, she said she did not know, they told her to think again and made suggestions. And Im really not on the fence the little girl was coachedI believe the ex husband , his freinds, and her lovers were invalid either way. That they did not test the outside of the car? There was no question in Dianes mind that Knick would take another mistress if she married him, and that hed move on again. If she did have memories of the actual shooting, that would be very rare. One should also wonder why their biological father who was so eager to bash his ex on the stand was not given custody, and did not stay in contact with his two remaining children: relevance? It could have been very different at almost any other time or with any other attorneys or juries too. All the years in prison probably made her way more disturbed than she ever was. She unwillingly followed the cops in spite of being in pain and not wanting to leave the premises. Diane had met all the requirements to be paroled. Belli filed a motion for a 2-week extension to familiarize himself with the case because he had to be in Italy, and declared Diane innocent in a press conference, but Foote denied the motion and declared you have an attorney, use him.. I am not saying that Diane was a saint or Ann Rule a demon. danny also said a cartoon character shot themalso he was SHOT IN THE BACK how could he see the shooter????????? I think it would give the blog more integrity and transparency. A demonstration in court strongly suggested that the shooter had to be left-handed to have been able to shoot in the car at the right angle. Once again, Diane said a lot of things. Id like to challenge some of the bloggers claims. Robert Willard Knickerbocker, 72. Mainly because the courts have to give every chance possible and all the services necessary to the bio family to try to preserve the relationship. If Diane was bipolar, the non-stop chatter would have been inherent to the situation. Downs then fell in love with a married coworker named Robert Knickerbocker, who continuously promised Diane he'd be with her and always reneged. The unreliability of childrens testimony has been documented by cognitive psychologists such as Elizabeth Loftus of the University of Cornell and others. So many of the cases Lise writes about on this blog either have no forensic evidence that supports the verdict or have very misleading forensic evidence that may or may not support the verdict, depending on who is interpreting it. She followed all the correct Parole Boardprocedures for two years with no hearing. You can click here to read about the case of Alice Crimmins during which the lead detective was heard telling the other cops before the bodies of the children were ever found:You take the husband, Ill take the bitch.. They are still part of their birth family. They would have tried to reopen the case. During Dianes examination at trial, Fred Hugi said in front of the jury, in the form of a question, that she had been diagnosed as a deviant sociopath.. Danny said several times that a bad man shot them and it was written in the nurses notes, but never that his mother shot him. This is also a faster route to give the children permanency, and is far cheaper for the child welfare system that is always strained by the budget. Late Tom Billings had been the first who openly questioned Diane Downs guilt. The tape is real and probably not admissible, but it seems to indicate that her testimony was coerced. It is a research done on the case according to many sources. Rule even talked about writing a book about her but it never materialized. And Steven would hunt her down anyway and charm his way back into her life. (I know that wasnt brought up this time but it usually is.) I am sorry the meaning of nonsense evades you like the facts of the case in this instance. They are the ones who considered Dianes children as, To this day, his record is mixed; his law license was suspended for, Belli filed a motion for a 2-week extension to familiarize himself with the case because he had to be in Italy, and declared Diane innocent in a press conference, but Foote denied the motion and declared . It was a fairly new science at the time so thats all it took to find him not guilty. CK allowed DD to drive away despite the fact she could identify him and he had a gun? After the trial that convicted Diane Downs, Fred Hugi, the Prosecutor adopted Christie and Danny (they were in foster care for 2 years before he decided to adopt them), the two surviving children. I would like to believe this is the truth. They hated her attitude and thought she was promiscuous and showed no sorrow or remorse. Fred Hugi is a man of the highest integrity and I hope that Dianes surviving two children finally found the love and stability they had been denied by their natural mother. It has nothing to do with the facts of the case. Not in this case. Downs brought authorities to the crime scene, where police found spent .22 caliber bullet casings, but could not find a weapon. She knew that Knickerbocker hated trouble of any kind, and thathe would have never come back to her after an ugly shooting where she had been wounded and her kids damaged. I tried to contact you by email but my email wouldnt acknowledge you email address. I state that it is not my place to judge innocence or guilt. Twitter is an internet service where users can update the world in real-time as to their current activities, thoughts and location in 140 characters or less. The gun is Def a big issue, the style of gun, whether it belonged to him or her, she Def had access to itthe child drew a picture of it, having large similarity to that gunbut it did always baffle me how she could find such a great hide for it in such a short period of time. U seem very one sided on every case Ann Rule has ever written just as u claim she did to u. N her parents didnt want custody of the children just like the father. It was writtenrepeatedly in the daily notes that the children were happy to see their mom and asked for her. Instead of shooting the little kids, why didnt the carjacker/killer (CK) simply shoot DD dead and take her car? (Appendix 3). You do not debate the content of the blog which you probably did not read anyway. I actually do not know what really happened. But in the case of DD, there were a lot of elements missing. Much worse. Andthe DA adopted her other two children. The whole blog claims the trial was flawed. 2. Because Foote was already familiar with the case, the presiding judge assigned him the murder trial after Downs was charged with the shootings. Send a note, share a story or upload a photo. The states own witness, Dr. George Suckow and Dr. Polly Jamison denounced Prosecutor Hugis practice as improper and unethical (Appendix 101 and 104). You cannot skip due process because of mob mentality. In the nurses notes, she is described as in shock and unable to grasp the situation. So obviously, she was the prime suspect. I am a Mortuary science student, true crime fanatic, and have been following the Downs case since it happened. She said a bunch of really stupid things in the media (my kids were lucky, not me gets the palm) and basically bury herself. I will take a screen shot of the sketch. She says she was outside the car n watched the man shoot her children n then the only adult n person who could tell police about him only gets a shot in the arm n takes time to bandage her arm. ..a little over year before the shooting had a surrogate babypregnancy and giving the baby awayumits donnoits the gal already had a fragile mentality.may not have been the best idea. I had nonetheless heard of the legendary Diane Downs; the cruel sociopath who had sacrificed her own children to be free to pursue a relationship with the man she loved. Some 287 errors and falsehoods were documented by Liysa and verified by official sources. It is called a conflict of interest. Evidence from a ballistics expert. She had not fired a gun. If the police department had done their job properly, I would not have written this blog, no matter the outcome. But without proof, Diane couldnt implicate Steve Downs any more than she could shoot him as he violated a restraining order threatening to beat her AGAIN. It is not a plus, but it is not a crime either. Movie scene alleging that Christie was scared. This case certainly had its share of circumstantial evidence. No conflict of interest from a prosecutor adopting a defendants children 2 years after the fact? The flesh and muscle had been cored three days earlier, but the steel plate and bone graft could not be effected for two weeks (a precaution against infection). Ive done my research. It was such a high profile case and she was found guilty by the media and the court so people are afraid to touch this one. Is it the one you tried to use? She signed an affidavit to that effect and wanted the jury informed of it but it was never done. Maybe I should have elaborated more about this comment. It simply states the facts of the case. They made her out to be a monster, but in Beckys case, it becomes redeemable. The implication was not only cruel, in the light of what Diane was suffering, it was also clear. In reply to Nick. Hed left his first wife to co-habitate with (and later marry) Charlene. Downs story also changed over the the course of several interrogations, leading police to suspect that there hadnt been a violent predator on the road that night at all, but rather Downs had attacked her own children and shot herself to make her story more believable. Instead, they treated the Downs with great cruelty long after their daughter was incarcerated and they fought hard for them. You may leave a message for the family by clicking here. You wondered at times, which side he was working for. There is her story, the prosecution case and the defense arguments. And what happened to her little daughter is beyond unethical. In this article, we can clearly see that Becky struggled and tried to justify her woes (maybe rightly so) by blaming it on her DNA. Sad situation. As you might know, Dianes father passed away after many years of anguish over the fate of his daughter. Robert Knickerbocker first came into the eyes of the investigators when, upon arrival at the hospital to visit her children after the incident, Diane phoned him looking extremely calm. Arizona; Tucson; Robert Arthur Knickerbocker; Robert Arthur Knickerbocker, Age 66. aka Robert C Knickerbocker, Robert a Knickerbocke. There is also a critical shortage of Foster Carers internationally, so that the Hugis offered to take the children in could be viewed as altruistic. Hugi did not want that. She had a more than competent attorney and a fair trial before a jury and NOT the same judge who handled the childrens matters. But you sure did comment like a true asshole, huh? It gave Anne Rule carte blanche to legally use these labels in her book and it stuck. Uncover details about birth, marriage, and divorce. Ive been trying to decipher her handwriting on the couple of pages she wrote to her daughter (misquoted on here somewhere is a highlighted If you love your little boy, youll take him far away from here- why is this being taken as a threat and not a warning?!). Modernism mixed with Medieval state of mind. None of this is EVIDENCE of anything in regard to the murder trial, and not once did I read that it was. Looking for Robert Knickerbocker? They checked her nails to see if she could have buried the gun and they were clean. Other names that Robert uses includes Robert A Knickerbocker. It is not a run of the mill case. Jennifer and Sarah Hart killed themselves and murdered their six adopted children in 2018 by driving their SUV off a cliff in California. Christie was it though. Only after these avenues are exhausted should non-relative placement be looked at. One of them named Angel, called 15-year-old Christie on the phone. Robert Knickerbocker is 66 years old today because Robert's birthday is on 05/15/1956. She was in solitary confinement for years and even escaped from prison once but was recaptured. Diane changed her story about the stranger on the road. It was obvious to the cops and the prosecution because they proceeded to get her daughter to testify against her because they had nothing to prove she was the shooter. Work: Rising Tide LP - General Partner, Rising Tide LTD Partnership - Chief Executive Officer, knickerbocker investments - owner +1 more. But the fact that the prosecutor called her a deviant sociopath in court without any assessment became another nail in her coffin. She learnedat a young age to keep her emotions in check and to always present a strong and brave front. If I included the ones I dont post, it would need more than a like or dislike button. It is normally done (in fact in many jurisdictions, can ONLY be done) by going through the process in a different state or county then the one the applicant works with. Gun shot residue is not always present. Right after her first surgery, The Detectives were adamant that they HAD to have Diane right then to recreate the incident- unless of course, you have something to hide. She would have been released under strict conditions with the support of her family and under the care of a mental health specialist. I do not care if the bushy haired stranger made no sense or if they could not explain the why of the tragedy, I do not care if she was madly in love with a guy because all that counts is proof and evidence in a court of law, and there was definitely a reasonable doubt. Another conflict of interest. It opened a huge can of worms regarding the real identity of the heart full of lies in this case. 1st, you came back from a trip? While that makes her technically eligible for parole at some point (in her case 2009) it does not actually mean she has an end date or a release date. The circumstances surrounding the crimes against these innocent children demand to be used as evidence.. My comment to you Lise is about your reply to a previous comment where you say Diane should have been released by now regardless of her statements. So they did everything in their power to slant the media and the public in their favor. The lovely Farrah Fawcett who played in the movie Small Sacrifices was known for her epic battles with lover Ryan ONeil. I am not sure. It seems that the Downs were totally ignored. It did not matter that they had no evidence; they did not like her attitude and she was going to pay for it: opinion, not fact He actually was the one who suggested they become intimate after many friendly, platonic conversations. Up. Nobody had any reason for a conspiracy of this magnitude over a literal nobody. They are the ones who supposedly (according to Diane) screwed her up so badly. Many troubling elements of the case were discovered after the trial, but there was enough during the proceedings to be asking questions. The US is a very strange bird when it comes to crime and punishment. I didnt know that. I think u need to read the facts. I felt there was something that should be done, but I was at a loss in how to cope with the Court that had given the children to the prosecutor and allowed false testimony to seal her fate. I found your blog to be very well written, informative and interesting. Your entry has exceeded the maximum character limit. Thanks again. Robert was a married man in Arizona with whom Diane had been having an affair, back when she was still living there. And other inmates were released with worst backgrounds. For example, the abhorrent decision regarding Keli Lane: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.whimn.com.au/talk/news/why-i-think-keli-lane-should-not-be-in-prison/news-story/069a09c79589645c48de5bfa91e4ca0f. The details about the gun missing, the daughters testimony and the fact that she had no blood or gun residues are facts. Some of your facts arent facts at all. Everywhere, EXCEPT the door through which Diane reported to police, the male stranger had passed. Page 37 of Case History. Lives in Dallas, TX. The problem with high profile cases is that the media, the DA, the cops and authors like Ann Rule dictate the narrative and it becomes almost impossible to look any other way unless you are a critical thinker devoid of emotions related to the case. you quoted what diane said as to what happened When she resisted, he shot her kids and struggled with her. Lets not forget that she was presumed to have fired a gun 6 times at close range within the confines of a small car. Most were married because Diane had no desire to remarry. That says it all. To the authorities, it was a ridiculous notion that they would not entertain so they did not follow on numerous leads coming from people who had seen someone corresponding to that description. So there was a transfer, but nothing else was found. Its tiresome. If I was of a mind to manipulate the Board by giving voice to the words they want me to utter, Id have sold my soul two decades ago when the lies would have benefited me and my youth passed long ago. Diane herself stated Cheryl was asleep on the front floorboard completely covered up with Dianes jacket how the hell did a stranger or a hitman(one of Dianes OTHER stories) KNOW Cheryl was there. Phenobarbital was administered alongside the Dilantin. I do not have to put any statement advising people that I am about to present the neglected aspects of the trial. This same witness corroborated that Diane did not stop to do something suspicious or dispose of the gun. Picture 2, Downs in ; Picture 3, Robert Knickerbocker entering the courtroom with his wife Charkene and sheriff's detective Doug. In the 21st century, it's not just urns and gravestones anymore. Lise do you know if the kids have ever reached out to the grandparents/family in the last few years? . Right after the shooting, little Danny would ask the nurses, , Even Ann Rule in her book, keeps mentioning that, Every time, she said she did not know, they told her to think again and made suggestions. This blogger apparently believes anything she hears to support her inaccurate theory that Diane Downs was falsely accused and convicted. High profile cases usually do not get the same treatment as regular folks. Christie became the star witness against her mother and who could resist such a touching testimony? Devoting ur life to taking down a dead author is a waste of ur talents. Moreover, he apparently told her that he did not want children and this statement alone would seal Dianes fate. The fact that they used her daughter and lied about the gun they could never find makes it a wrongful conviction. Diane doesnt believe Rebecca is her daughter, rather a media puppet ran by Rule. They were in their care during the time Diane worked when she moved to Oregon. No gun, no blood or gun residue on her and if she shot them, these elements should have been there. There is absolutely no evidence that Hungry like the Wolf was playing when Christie got shot but it is another detail they added to bring a dramatic element to this trial. The gun presented at trial being the wrong one is a fact. In the end, it is scary how media becomes some kind of Roman circus where people is thrown in order to become a source of business. In fact, if appropriate family is found, termination is not required. 78 court search results for people named "Robert Knickerbocker" in the United States. I write about cases where due process is in question and important aspects were ignored or twisted. She was no mother of the year, I will grant them that, but a trial is supposed to be based on evidence. This case needed to be examined more thoroughly, but the mob mentality didnt allow it. Information and advice to help you cope with the death of someone important to you. Id have more influence arguing for better relationships with Mexico at a Donald Trump rally in Mexico. For all my life I have thought I was not that smart, but now I can tell myself, hey cheer up could be worse. Just saw the video of Dianes parole hearing. That is pure bullshit. Why am I not arguing the facts of the trial? Diane recanted the stories about her dad who vehemently denied them. John Shea who played Fred in the TV movie Small Sacrifices even looks like him. ANNE RULES BOOK IS A LIE, ,ALL MADE UP CRAP. There is only one major problem with your scenario. Instead of talking about her being locked up for so long, answer some very legitimate questions regarding this case. At least two of those school mates reported Christies tortured confession to their mother Was no mother of the bloggers claims over and over, shouldnt we pay attention to effect! Once in awhile, it becomes redeemable `` Robert Knickerbocker '' in `` County. 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